The only certainty
Among my most irritating traits — naturally selected, perhaps, by my participation in hack journalism over the years — is conducting intelligence tests in public bars. They would perhaps be more acceptable if I announced them openly, & set each in the format of a pub quiz. But my purpose is seldom to provide entertainment. It is instead, to find out whether it is worth arguing with any given interlocutor, about some topic he has raised. I ask apparently innocent questions, or make leading remarks, in order to establish if he has the fondest idea what he is talking about. For if he doesn’t, & by his manner shows no inclination to learn, there is really no point in arguing. Were I as wise as I am irritating, I would perhaps stop arguing when there is no point. Alas, too often, I take the bait anyway.
Out “drinking with the boys” last night (only one Tuesday left until Lent!) I was reminded of a test conducted elsewhere fairly recently. This was a couple of years ago, when I found myself being verbally assaulted by a pair of dreadful Darwinoids, to whom I had just been introduced. They knew me for the dreadful anti-Darwinian from the Ottawa Citizen, & had “a problem with that.”
Soon after our conversation began, for reasons too dull to recite, I became curious to know if either understood what the word “epigenetic” means. I wasn’t looking for a technical definition, along the lines of “an alteration in the genome that does not correspond to an alteration in the nucleotide sequence,” but something more fundamental than that. Did they grasp that genes can express themselves differently, & indeed so differently that a dramatically different creature could be constructed from exactly the same genes? (The point is important, because unless fully grasped, a great deal of deterministic nonsense about genes will be spoken.)
One of them rolled off something like a technical definition, but with a mistake to suggest it had been learnt by rote. The other, with no direct biological training that I could discern, was entirely clueless. He had incidentally been the more aggressive of the two in accusing me of “Mediaeval ignorance.”
But again: I wasn’t testing for rote acquisition of neo-Darwinist jargon. I was testing for elementary comprehension of biological process. Does the pupil in this case begin to understand the dimensional depth of his error when he glibly assigns, for instance, certain fixed traits to certain fixed genes? And if not, might it still be possible to explain the matter to him, so that he can, eventually, “get” the concept? In the event, “Darwinoid A” proved possibly teachable, “Darwinoid B” definitely unteachable.
A second line of intelligence testing was then administered. Both interlocutors asserted that the essential doctrine in some neo-Darwinian “consensus” is natural selection from random mutations. Now, this is unfair even to neo-Darwinism, which does flirtatiously wink at a few decidedly non-random factors in the production of mutations that must then pass through the “selection” filter. But more fundamentally: As avowed Darwinists, did they have any idea what Darwin himself had taught? For the old bearded wonder never asserted that mutation would be “random” in the coin-flipping sense. (He was cautiously vague.) Nor did he assert that “natural selection” was the only possible filter. On the contrary, he expressly asserted that he was not asserting that. (The man knew how to cover his backside.)
This is why I feel sorry for Darwin sometimes, & even for Karl Marx. Bad as they might have been, they did not deserve their supporters. Late in life, Herr Marx supposedly exclaimed, “I am not a Marxist!” while listening to French Marxists expounding his ideas. Likewise, we might imagine Mr Darwin in ye pub, exclaiming, “I am not a Darwinist!”
The specific issue at the 21st-century pub table became the book, What Darwin Got Wrong, by Jerry Fodor & Massimo Piattelli Palmarini. The authors are a couple of explicitly atheist, cognitive science types whose training was, respectively, more philosophical & more biological. It came out in 2010, & attracted the predictable hailstorm of abuse, mostly ad hominem. That I was physically carrying a copy of this book, & moreover, produced it visibly with a recommendation, perhaps contributed to my interlocutors’ spleen.
The book is worth keeping in circulation if only because it does actually provide a good summary of the case against basic Darwinism — against the idea that “natural selection” can explain anything at all about evolution — & then against the various ways neo-Darwinists have tried to extend the definition of “natural selection” to get around this obstacle. It is a summary only: so far as I remember (my copy of the book having since been passed along) none of the arguments were original. The genius was in gathering the arguments together, updating them with recent findings, setting them in concrete logical order, then placing this slab over poor Darwin’s corpse, in the hope it might stay buried.
The authors did not argue for “intelligent design,” unless implicitly. Their point was that Darwinism — in any form at all — is absolutely useless for the purpose of explaining evolutionary developments. Its attraction has nothing to do with science, & everything to do with metaphor: it appeals because its believers desperately want it to be true. But by now we know too much biology by direct observation to entertain the notion that evolution could have any single material driver, let alone such a limply passive one. There are so many drivers — so many, many, many drivers — & such incredibly complex interactions between them — that no sequence of trial-&-error experiment, nor other empirical method, can possibly extract such a philosopher’s stone. Darwinism must perforce go the way of alchemy, astrology, phrenology, &c.
My favourite chapter in What Darwin Got Wrong was entitled, “The Return of the Laws of Form.” This is because it exhumed one of my own great heroes, the polymath Scotsman, D’Arcy Wentworth Thompson (1860—1948, & anti-Darwin to his dying day). His glorious book, On Growth & Form, used mathematical principles from physics to inquire into the phenomena of morphogenesis in biology — how living creatures acquire pattern & shape. At its heart is the knowledge that Nature is not “random” in any sense — that not even the smallest fleck of inanimate dust will or could behave randomly. And, that the “Laws of Nature” are necessarily coordinated: you can’t change one thing without changing another.
At the frontiers of biology today, these principles from physics & chemistry have come back into play, on a molecular & sub-molecular scale. Crucial things happen for comprehensible physical & chemical reasons not separate from, but integrated with, biological process — providing plain empirical paths to the destruction of materialist glibness. Yet nowhere — not even where simplicity is presented at its simplest — can we observe an isolated cause & effect. Too much is always going on for that. We are dealing with “machinery” vastly too intricate for mechanistic analysis; with “machinery” that is, simply, not machinery by the metaphor handed down from Descartes & Bacon.
That is what makes current science so interesting. The phenomena have themselves, as it were, broken from the Cartesian (& Darwinian) moulds. The Mechanical Fallacy imposed upon Nature something the evidence can no longer bear &, so far as it is honest, empirical science is left with no choice but to revert once again from smugness to wonder.
That this would be a source of distress to those deeply invested in the Mechanical Fallacy, is easy enough to understand. Their very faith in the meaninglessness of human life is threatened, along with often quite elaborate liberal-progressive (or fascist) views that depend on that faith. The most fundamental salvationist article in the Atheist creed — that through suicide one may always escape the consequences of one’s acts — is, ultimately, kicked away. Where is one to turn for certainty after that?
There was once a fierce argument between Edison and Westinghouse regarding the desirability of direct as opposed to alternating current. Westinghouse (alternating current) won out, but the argument was not continued with obsessive ferocity in the media for more than a hundred years. That was because God was in no way involved.
What Darwin represents to atheists is the author of Holy Scripture. He is similar, of course, to Galileo, another conscripted apostle of those who need to believe that religion is bunk and there is no God. (The odious communist Bertolt Brecht wrote a play about Galileo for obvious reasons.) The Scopes Monkey Trial was the great liberal/left parable of right thinking atheism versus reactionary backward Christianity. There is even a nauseating play written about it, later to become a much praised liberal/left movie staring Spencer Tracy (naturally).
There is an old saying that no one blunders into hell. I believe that atheists know at some level that they are being irrational when they deny the existence of God, the Intelligent Designer. That is why they take people to the secular courts, get unbiased scientists slapped down, and endlessly jump on the bones of anyone who dares publicly to question Darwin.
The thing to fear from Darwinists is that one day they will become more organized and form an official church. That would mean that they could donate money to the promotion of Darwin and receive charitable receipts for tax purposes.
A couple of books that could be added to What Darwin Got Wrong are God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God? by John Lennox, and Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design by Stephen Meyer. Lennox is especially good at deconstructing Richard Dawkins et al. In fact, he has written a book, which I have not read, Gunning for God, devoted to this exercise.
The arguments against Darwinism and atheistic implications therefrom are strong and building. In America, however, they are effectively barred in public schools by a misapplication or misinterpretation of a First Amendment prohibition of the establishment of religion. See the Dover decision.
And in academia the arguments are effectively barred by a regnant political correctness.
Unfortunately many Christian theists of a more evangelical bent interpret Genesis in a highly literal way. They rest their faith (or at least their understanding of creation) on a rickety young earth foundation that lacks credibility and damages their cause.
Back at the dawn of personal computers chaos theory enjoyed a brief vogue. One could type in a non-linear equation, convert the results to graphic values and let the computer churn, while bright patterns emerged on the monitor. The wonder of it was that bright patterns, not the expected gray uniformity of noise, appeared. “Strange attractors” and other oddities pointing toward fractal structures are just part of the fun that may be had. Chaos is not random. Chaotic systems are many. Are there any truly random systems in nature?
I get the feeling that David wrote this just to see how I, the token Liberal-Progressive-Atheist-Darwinoid in the commentariat, would respond. It may shock him, but I agree with much of what he has said.
It is a common misconception that “evolutionists” believe that genes are deterministic. There are circumstances when the presence or absence of a specific gene will almost guarantee a specific outcome (Huntington’s and sickle cell anemia come to mind), but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.
Genes are responsible for nothing more than the production of different proteins. What we end up being as adults is dependent on when and how much of these proteins are produced during the time that we are developing (i.e., how the proteins are assembled). Sometimes this “expression” is caused by other genes and sometimes by environment (both internally within the cell and external to the cell). For example, no biologist in the world can determine whether the fertilized egg of a turtle or of a clown fish will grow into a male or a female. The sex of the turtle is dictated by the temperature at which the egg is incubated. For a clown fish, they are all born male but the largest one of a pair will turn female. There are even rare circumstances when a human is born with both male and female reproductive organs. In short, all turtles, clownfish and humans have the genes necessary to be either sex.
I could talk more but I will let David attack me on what I have already said.
Oh, yah, I forgot to mention that the non-deterministic nature of genes is consistent with the theory of natural selection.
My dear Acartia, all kinds of things are consistent with the theory of natural selection, including the existence of very large kites at the Yokaichi Festival in Higashiomi, Japan; & of Mrs Leyel’s recipe for spinach & mushroom pudding. Just now, up here in the High Doganate, we have made a fresh pot of tea, & observed that it does not contradict the theory of natural selection in any way. On the other hand, it doesn’t prove it, either.
Acartia, too many things are “consistent with the theory of natural selection.”
“Irrefutability is not a virtue of a theory (as people often think) but a vice.” (See Karl R. Popper, Conjectures and Refutations.) In other words, the more a theory claims to explain, the less likely it is to be true, and “natural selection” is certainly the greatest heap of “nothing-buttery” reductionism ever presented to mankind.
Charles, I wish to second your opinion about Lennox. His demolition of Dawkins in God’s Undertaker (including the fact that he exposes the latter’s use of a deus ex machina — must have been a fairy from his back garden) was one of the most enjoyable things I ever read.
David, I agree that your brewing of tea is consistent with natural selection. After all, if people brewed hemlock tea, they wouldn’t survive to pass that habit along.
But natural selection is testable. Your example of domestic dogs reverting to a wolf like form after several generations of being feral is an example. Natural selection predicts that this would go hand in hand with a reduction in genetic variation. If this was shown not to be the case, the theory would have to be questioned. The same would hold for the genetic variation found in antibiotic resistant TB (or any other disease). I don’t know if any of this has been studied but they are certainly tests that could cast doubt on natural selection. In short, refutability.
But intelligent design (the attempt to cast creationism in a scientific light) is not refutable. However, if you can envision a test or observation that would disprove the possibility, I am open to changing my mind about keeping natural selection as a scientific theory and keeping intelligent design out.
We must always try to remember that mathematics is consistent with reality. What’s helpful is standing before a mirror and then applying the math.
I give you the Bornean pig, whose marvelous scimitar-like tusks just keep on growing and growing. It becomes impossible to eat (or kiss, probably) and then eventually the tusks pierce the great hog’s head and drive their way on through its cranium, killing it, of course.
But what magnificent tusks! The pig is a symbol of terror and majesty and is much prized.
I suspect one of DW’s intelligence tests would relegate me not just to a different table but to a different bar. Operating a level or two below the epigenetic and morphogenesis discussions herein is why, I guess, I cannot fathom how Darwin figures in any discussion about (a)theism. To my knowledge, Darwin says nothing at all about how life evolved from the primordial mud, nor, even larger problem, the provenance of the primordial mud. Which omission, by the way, seems shared with the Big Bang theory of “genesis”. Which points me to an undeniably higher Power, or, some might say, God. Q.E.D. – for this sugar cookie kid anyway.
Corrigenda to Mattmugg at 5:32 p.m.
1) I don’t think pigs have crania. I think they have skulls. But I don’t know the difference and I’m not going to look it up.
2) It becomes difficult — but not impossible — for the pig to eat, not for one to eat the pig.
3) If it wasn’t clear, the tusks grow around in a circle and then back towards its head and then down through its skull.
Lord Estey, for atheists Charles Darwin is viewed as an unbiased scientist who turned the Bible to bunk. The godless folks view Holy Scripture as something other than what it is — an account written by humans of the Almighty’s demonstrated omnipotent creation and witnessed interaction with mankind. (They think all or most believers view Holy Scripture as a scientific account suitable for a scientific journal.)
Darwin is much beloved by the godless too because he said, “I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true.” Instead of a loving God and a universe with order and meaning in it, Darwin preferred bleak materialism and a meaningless universe where a gnat is equal to a man.
Darwin was indeed a strange old bird, once sneaking up behind and bashing the head in of a beautiful rare fox with his geological hammer so he could study and catalogue the dead body.
Also, whether Nature “selects” for this or that “gene” depends greatly on what the organism is trying to do. Whether a long neck or a short one is “advantageous” depends on whether one is trying to be a giraffe or a cow. It makes as much sense to say that Stuff Happens and the organism learns how to use it or not.
The thing is, it’s not about the pig. The pig is just how the tusks reproduce.
Reading the above comments I propose a new name for Natural Selection. We should use the term Successful Succession. But then reflecting on the jibe of Otiosus at suicide reminded me of Chesterton’s excellent essay, “The Fallacy of Success,” in which GKC hypothesized that even a dead man could be described as successful if he had committed suicide, and of course he may not have left behind any descendants (or successors). Perhaps we should say he successfully seceded from the human race to some other place and state.
It is interesting that nobody attempts to answer the question.
Natural selection is an extremely simple concept. Those that are able to reproduce will pass along their traits whereas those that don’t, won’t. If all Asians were prevented from reproducing, the epicanthic fold would disappear. If all English were prevented from reproducing, orthodontists would go out of business.
There are no morals or ethics involved, which is probably why some people have an issue with it. Darwin has been blamed for eugenics, “survival of the fittest”, social Darwinism, etc. even though he never suggested any of these. As with all scientists, philosophers, politicians, priests and popes, he was human. He got some things right and some things wrong. He had every flaw that we all have.
People criticize his theory because it has been modified over time. But that is the strength of science, not a weakness. Newton’s theory of gravity has been proven to be wrong. But it is “right” enough to put people on the moon and propels around every planet in the solar system. We don’t demonize him because he was wrong, even though, by all accounts, he was a terrible person. We give him credit for bringing us closer to the truth. Darwin’s theory is not perfect, but it has been “right” enough to base modern medicine on.
I am not a biologist but I own a calendar and I know some Math.
Since we have pretty much established beyond a doubt that the Earth started to cool about 4 billion years ago after a series of singularities gave the Universe the particular shape and properties it has, which are quite conducive to hosting what we know as life; the question is now to establish the probability of about 200 to 300 proteins associating in such a way to form the simplest form of life, then survive and recombine in increasingly complex forms to produce the planet we see today in record time.
Four billion years are not a lot of time to win the lottery every consecutive day about 400 trillion times. I must admit it looks challenging. In statistical terms the probabilities approach zero. You may want to think that 400 trillion-trillion to one is still a chance, this is still a free country. But I don’t want to bet a dollar against those odds.
Not being a biologist or a great statistician for that matter I only ask why is it that what blind forces achieved so easily we cannot reproduce in a lab dish. Let me explain: if you let me rig the system I can win the Massachusetts lottery every time. If you don’t believe me, ask Whitie Bulger! I am not asking for much, make me a couple of nice wiggling prokaryotes and I’m in like Flynn. I am not asking for an elephant or a whale.
Another question — forgive my invincible ignorance — How do I know that my foot is being stepped upon when someone steps on it? How this collection of chemicals knows that he is different from the other collection of chemicals boldly stepping upon the aforementioned toes?
The question of self conscience was put forth very clearly by Sir Ringo Starr a few decades ago:
What do you see when you turn out the light?
I can’t tell you, but I know it’s mine.
Perhaps one day I will get a good answer to these fundamental questions with a little help from my friends.
Recall a discussion we had a few weeks ago about natural selection and fitness. In that discussion the natural selection advocate dismissed a point that did not support his position (to those who are not inclined to look for a materialistic explanation, this dismissal made the notion seem even more flimsy).
I’ve also had a few discussions at the pub. A former boss was an anti-Castro atheist from Cuba, and he loved to knock back a few drinks after work and talk about religion, philosophy, literature, and politics. He would begin a rant, his finger waving in the air, and I would laugh at him or correct him mid-sentence. “There are two kinds of people in the world,” the progressivist chap once began, “those who look to the past, and those who look to the future.” I cut in, “No, the world is divided into these two kinds of people: those who seek the truth, and those who don’t care.” All fun aside, he also recognized his own limits somewhat; he once admitted (I almost said confessed) that sure, he sometimes said an Our Father when the plane is taking off — but what of it? I just smiled.
Acartia, Natural Selection doesn’t explain how the immense complexity of organic life on earth came about. It does explain variations within species to a limited degree, but that is it. The math simply doesn’t add up. What we are asked to believe by Darwinoid atheists is that billions of coincidences happened over and over in time. That isn’t science. It’s magic.
“Darwin’s theory is not perfect, but it has been ‘right’ enough to base modern medicine on.”
Very interesting statement that one Acartia — so please explain to me if this “miracle” occurrence has happened once, why cannot it happen again and again ad infinitum. And using the medical profession as a crutch, why is it that the medics are so paranoid about cleanliness and hygiene in an operating theatre.
Have wantonly changed the title of this “Essay,” having taken a dislike to it generally, but even more to looking at the word, “Biodegradation” (the former title), which is too ugly for that size of type. The topic itself is rather tiresome, yet cannot be avoided: for 155 years now, it has been impossible to discuss Nature without starting an argument with the Darwinian Inquisitors; “might as well just proceed to the argument.”
The great victory of Darwinism, in its own time, was to create this state of affairs, & thereby to kill the extraordinary enthusiasm with which natural history had once been pursued, in the Linnean tradition.
There is a wonderful short book, Science, God, & Nature in Victorian Canada, by Carl Berger, on whom we bestowed the “Idler Award for Historians of Lost Causes” back in 1984. (The award was a one-way bus ticket to Orangeville.)
It describes the withering of so many amateur local natural history societies, & beyond them of the huge voluntary field studies movement that flourished, not only in Canada but throughout the West, in the generation or two before The Origin of Species arrived — & began persuading people that Nature wasn’t really very interesting after all, & that her innumerable miraculous effects were not worth documenting, for all could now be explained away in a single glib sentence by anyone of low to mediocre intelligence.
So much of that field effort had been attached to church activities, in all Christian congregations; it served as a great social bridge between Protestants & Catholics, as well as between Protestants of the different folds. The wonder of it, looking back, is how high a standard of fieldwork was maintained, & how consistently this standard was bid upward.
The book also touches on the rather heroic Canadian rearguard action, against the imposition of the Darwinian ideology: on characters like Sir John William Dawson — the Presbyterian farmboy from Pictou, Nova Scotia, who made McGill in Montreal from a small Bible college into one of the planet’s major research universities, before going on to provide the same service for Princeton University in USA. As a geologist & palaeontologist of world renown (ranking with his friend & mentor, Charles Lyell), he was at endless pains to show that the Darwin thesis of “gradualism” was belied by the entire fossil record; with arguments & demonstrations that would stand up in court today. Gradually his reputation was smeared & eclipsed by a scandal he refused to hide: for the man was a believing Christian, & therefore in the view of Darwin’s self-appointed henchmen, unqualified to pronounce on scientific questions. But in actual scientific accomplishment, he did in fact dwarf all those henchmen combined, & his reputation remains unassailable.
Science, God, & Nature in Victorian Canada was just a sketch, or point of departure: as valuable for its references to this “lost world,” as for its text. Far more scholarly work is required; alas, in Canada at least, it has not been followed up, in the face of poisoned attitudes in academia. Prof. Berger himself, now honoured & retired, was politic enough to get right out of that field, & back on the well-funded highway of Canadian political historiography.
There was a young man of Cadiz
Who inferred that Life is what it is !
For he early had learn’t
If it were what it weren’t
It could not be that which it is !
Dame Edith Sitwell
Those fellows in the pub, they must have been epigones.
The claim is that there is a sequence of progressively more complex life-forms (A through Z, where A is the first life form and Z man, say) such that each form in the sequence evolves from the one immediately preceding it. And by evolve is meant that when any given form takes to biologically propagating itself it may generate “random mutations” or “random biological newnesses” in its offspring, and these mutational differences may be so favoured in the form’s natural environment that they may become established by a further process of biological inheritance insofar as the offspring that carry these mutations will tend to thrive and multiple over time and either separate from the offspring that don’t carry the mutations or, through natural attrition, replace those carriers of the non-mutated earlier form entirely.
This process of random mutation builds on itself so that mutations are added to mutations and mutations are themselves further mutated so that eventually what was once a recognized life-form has yielded up what is now recognized as not just a variant of the same life-form but a brand new one. Definitions of what constitutes a life-form may be hard to put into words but everyone recognizes what is meant. One breed of dog is not a different life-form to another breed of dog, they are just two variants within the same life-form. A man’s life-form on the other hand is certainly different from that of a dog’s. And we all recognize what is meant by higher and lower life-forms. There is a scala natura, a great chain of being that extends through vegetative and animalic realms, and within these realms there is a recognizable hierarchy of organic being.
It is the life form that generates difference, it is not natural selection which generates difference. Natural selection merely selects the difference already presented to it or not. It is true that the selection taken in the first instance will determine the range of differences presented in the next and subsequent instances, but this is a purely negative role, the positive and substantive generation of difference always resides with the life-form. It is misleading to say that natural selection accounts for difference; it is like saying that the lay of the land accounts for the river that flows through it, it doesn’t, it merely accounts for the path that the river flows in, not for the fact that water flows.
Thus, life-form A generates differences (mutations) A1, A2, A3, A4 etc. The environment “selects” A1, A3, etc. but rejects A2, A4, etc. Life-form A subsequently generates differences A1.1, A1.2, A1.3, A1.4 ….A3.1, A3.2, A3.3, A3.4 etc. (it does not generate differences A2.1….A4.1….etc. because the grounds that would have supported these options were previously “deselected.”)
1.
The statement: if and only if A then B, means not only that if the state of affairs A arises then the state of affairs B will necessarily arise, but also that the state B will not arise unless the state A first arises. B is fully determined by A. B is not essentially different from A, it is a function of A. B is merely the further unfolding, the explicitation of that which is already contained in A.
2.
By contrast, the statement: if and only if not-A then not-B, means that the state B will not arise if the state A does not first arise. But it does not mean that if A does arise then B will also necessarily arise. The being of B is grounded in A, but it is not wholly determined by A. There is something over and above A that must account for the being of B. B is not a function of A. The difference between B and A is a free difference. The difference cannot be accounted for by A. The difference is “new” with respect to A. The difference is not an unfolding of A.
Given that the life-form alone generates difference, the difference between life-form A and life-form B is either of the type 1, if A then B, or 2, if not-A then not-B, above.
If 1, then B is merely the unfolding of A. A already comprehends B in potency, the whole of B is already present in A. Not only this, but all the life-forms in the sequence from A to Z, from the first life form to man’s, are already fully present in A. Nothing is added from without A to render the entire sequence over time. The entire substance of the sequence is contained in A.
If 2, then the difference between A and B cannot be accounted for by the operation of any natural law of physics, chemistry or biology. As far as these realms of nature are concerned the generation of difference is pure magic. From the point of view of natural science a mutation as such is an act of magic. The difference is an extra, a wholly new that arises from nothing. The difference is not wholly rendered intelligible in terms of A, and that which is not rendered intelligible in terms of A is not rendered intelligible in anything other than A.
The difference between a whisper and a scream is a quantitative one. The difference between a sound and a colour is a qualitative one.
Thus, if one starts with a whisper and incrementally adds sound one will end with a scream. But at no stage of incrementally adding sound will one next get a colour. This is because there is no such thing as an incremental qualitative difference. All qualitative difference is absolute. If one has sound alone and adds more sound one gets an increase in what one has. But if one adds colour one does not increase what one has, one gets something absolutely new and this newness is not an incremental difference, it is an absolute difference.
If one “randomly” tosses a coin with one hand to catch it in the palm of the other, it will land either heads or tails up. One can determine whether it is heads or tails if one knows the values of pertinent parameters such as the starting position of the coin (heads up or tails up), the vertical and horizontal momentums that one imparts when one tosses, and the point in the coin’s descent at which one intercepts its fall to catch it. There might be other pertinent parameters to consider beside these four, such as the strength and direction of any wind there might be, the height of the ceiling, and so on, but there is a definite number in any case and if one knows the values for each parameter one can calculate with perfect accuracy how the coin will move through the air and how it will land.
Suppose though that there are just the four parameters to consider, and further suppose two parties were able to contribute some of the values to any toss. Party 1, say, could determine the starting position and the point at which the descending coin was caught, while party 2 could determine the vertical and horizontal thrusts imparted. It is clear that for any toss generated by both participating parties the result will describe a unique parabolic trajectory together with a determined starting and ending position for the coin. But what can never happen in the case of one toss is that a fifth, hitherto not existing parameter can be brought into play by either party to determine the nature of the toss. A never-before used value of a parameter, or never-before used sets of parametric values might be brought into play, but never a hitherto non-existing parameter, for such a parameter can have no cause in what lay prior to it.
Evolutionary theory palms the ace in two ways. It firstly talks using the language of statistics when describing an event it conceives in classical terms. It says things like random variation and “chance” mutation and replicating “errors” of individual natural events, as if nature makes errors or natural phenomena happen by chance. “Random” and “chance” are words proper to a method that is used to study reality, but they are not proper to describing that reality itself. (The 15 to 20 men who will drop dead of a heart attack on the streets this year are indeed random as far as the statistical method is concerned, but each man who has a heart attack is not actually random and there is always a good reason why he has his heart attack.) The result seems to be that the question as to what the discernible cause of these individual events might actually be is not raised. People are happy to let it go that these are teeny weeny natural events that happen by “chance” and “randomness” and in this way magic is smuggled into theory and the inadequacy of what Voegelin calls the radically immanent theory of evolution is masked.
The second way the ace is palmed is by treating parametric descriptors of qualities as if they were variable quantities for such parameters. All demonstrated variations or mutations are variations or mutations within already existing parameters. Yet the theory illicitly extends the principle to talk as if the parameters themselves spontaneously spring into being; that new categories come to be by chance.
Certainly there is a scale of being that manifests the emergence of qualitative differences over time. But if a theory of radical immanence is to account for this, then it follows that the first life-form already possesses the entire substance and potential for the emergence of all subsequent life-forms that actually do emerge. And this begs the obvious question: whence this mother of all life-forms that was before any evolution?
So AGS, God created A. God created B. Got created C and so on to God created Z. B does not arise from A. This would account for the sudden appearance of new species in the fossil record with no predecessors appearing in lesser forms of development.
Darwin didn’t commit murder by hitting that beautiful fox over the head with his geologist’s hammer. If his theory of evolution was indeed sound, he would have killed a member of his own extended family.
Catino: “Four billion years are not a lot of time to win the lottery every consecutive day about 400 trillion times. I must admit it looks challenging. In statistical terms the probabilities approach zero.”
Viscount Dochart: “What we are asked to believe by Darwinoid atheists is that billions of coincidences happened over and over in time.”
I agree that these scenarios would be so improbable that they would be effectively impossible. But natural selection is not a random process. It acts to simply reduce the amount of genetic variation in a population, favouring some combination of traits over others. Nature doesn’t “select” for blue eyes; it “selects” for a combination of traits expressed in organisms, one of which may be blue eyes. But blue eyes, in and of themselves, may have absolutely no adaptive advantage (except if you are an actor, of course). They may just be going along for the ride.
Given the rate of reproduction (from hours for bacteria to a few decades for large animals), the rate of mutation, the millions of years involved, and the massive quantity of genetic material to act on, the 3+ billion years that life has existed is sufficient. How life got started is not at issue. Personally, I believe that it was through natural processes, but I will be the first to admit that this is pure speculation on my part.
If you accept that natural selection has some function within a species, which has been clearly demonstrated through direct observation and through experimentation, then arguing that it must stop at the species boundary does not make any sense. Especially when you consider that the entire concept of a species is purely the result of man’s propensity to categorize everything. Nature does not follow our rules.
In one respect (and possibly others) AGS is correct. Natural selection does not add difference. It only subtracts. The raw material are mutations (not random, but close enough for the sake of argument), transcriptions, transpositions, viruses, etc. Any population of animals will have a wide variation of characteristics. When there are no pressures on the population (i.e., selection of a mate is random and all offspring have an equal chance at survival) then this variation will be maintained or increased. There are many cases where this stability is maintained over extensive periods of time. But if there is pressure on the population, or, more likely, an isolated subset of the population, natural selection may result in a reduction in this variation. It is not a creative process. The variation has to be present for natural selection to work on it.
Those that painted Stalin on a white horse, sword in hand fighting in battles he was never even close to, were considered artists in the old Soviet Union. That form of “art” perished with Khrushchev.
I have listened attentively to a few evolutionary biologists of note and there is something disturbing about the way they handle concepts. First, I am glad they did not decide to be nuclear engineers. Second I realize that we have eradicate that kind of fast-and-loose pseudo-epistemology from our schools.
The temptation is to do it by force because they act like that and force those who don’t think like them out of the educational system. Perhaps we need our own Khrushchev, someone who can simply say “I don’t want to hear see that garbage on the wall any more.”
Like I said before: I want someone to assemble the simplest cell from scratch. If you can’t do that at this point I have to conclude you are trying to sell me a bridge. I do not like people trying to scam me, less that any, I do not like people that try to tell me that I don’t understand their theories. If I can understand Newton, Maxwell, and Einstein I can understand nearly anything that is explained to me carefully.
I have asked the questions over and over: how do I know that I am “moi” and not someone else. At what point a random collection of chemical elements achieves conscience. Why is it that evolutionists get so quickly on the high horse and leave slamming the door when I ask those simple questions.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Acartia, you say: “For example, no biologist in the world can determine whether the fertilized egg of a turtle or of a clown fish will grow into a male or a female. The sex of the turtle is dictated by the temperature at which the egg is incubated”
If, as you say, the sex is determined by temperature, then we can say that if the temperature range is in X it will be female and if in range Y it will be male.
So if there is a fertilized egg of a turtle, and it is incubated at X, then a certain state of affairs, A, holds. And if A holds then a state of affairs B will arise, where B includes the birth of a female turtle.
So it follows that if there is a biologist in the world who knows that the state A holds, and that if A holds then B will hold, then that biologist can determine whether the fertilized egg of a turtle will grow into a male or a female.
AGS: I think Acartia was talking about the sex of the egg prior to incubation. [Smileyface icon removed by Star Chamber.]
I love quotes. They are everything and nothing.
Allow me to misquote my favorite quote of all: The only thing that I know is that I know absolutely nothing.
The great comedian Stephen Wright: On the other hand is five fingers.
Darwin was a theorist. So was Einstein. Their theories were like what we say today, just awesome.
Our search for answers and our search for wisdom has no end. Well, maybe one day, we will get that one and only Final Revelation.
But in the meantime, we are all struggling in the dark looking for answers.
We’ve found bones of a T-Rex but no one has yet found a fully preserved T-Rex on ice. Therefore, in movies, the look of a T-Rex has been imagined. For all we know, dinosaurs were maybe purple, blue or apple green.
I cannot grasp onto religious dogma with certitude and I cannot grasp onto evolutionist theories with certitude but if I am falling off a cliff I will grasp onto anything I can find.
One strange thing I’m still trying to understand is how come one of my cats has figured out how to open doors with his paws. Yes, he will stand up on two legs and turn the door knob with his forth paws. I could videotape it and put it on YouTube for all to see as I’m sure the world populace is eager and salivates to view another cat video but I wonder how come this one cat has figured it out and the other cats haven’t.
Does the late Mr. Darwin have an answer?
Lord Acartia, you must be a Nietzchean if you believe that history is that long that anything is possible. The earth is a few billions years old, but that is not enough time for Natural Selection to result in the almost infinite complexity of all the organisms living on the earth in the past, and in the present. The fossil record simply does not support what Darwin suggested. There were many catastrophic events that interrupted the time flow as well such as ice ages, volcanic eruptions, asteroid collisions, droughts, floods etc.
A reasonable person can wonder what or who the Creator (Intelligent Designer) is, but it is simply not rational to believe that no such Creator exists. Again, that is magic, not rational science.
I’m for avoiding falls off cliffs under any circumstance.
Faith is an act of the will whereby we give intellectual consent to something revealed by a reliable authority. Revelation in the religious sense is when God — all-knowing, incapable of deceiving or being deceived, the ultimate in reliable sources — lets us know something that we would not have otherwise known (e.g. God is a trinity), and we accept on the authority of God revealing. Nothing is more reasonable.
That should be “assent” rather than “consent.”
That’s what I get for tapping at the keyboard before brewing my coffee. Bother.
Sean:
One of the unintended effects of free interpretation — available to all but the Catholic Magisterium who is found to be always wrong — is to cast doubt on Divine Revelation. The scandal of a divided house is seen from afar as witness that not all Christians agree to believe in the original Christianity. Of course all parties have arguments but only one has a duration consistent with having believed the same thing from the beginning.
Ann H:
“AGS: I think Acartia was talking about the sex of the egg prior to incubation.”
Yes, Ann, I’m sure he was. But my point is that Acartia’s intention gets buried in the articulation and so falsifies the expressed grounds on which the argument for evolution through natural selection proceeds.
You see, if the sex of the offspring is in fact determinable in principle then there can be no evolution based on “random events.” Given the totality of the state of natural affairs that held at the advent of the first form of life on earth the emergence of all subsequent life forms couldn’t have happened other than it did.
Look how Acartia in the following loses the substance by misplacing it in the appearance; how he mistakes efficient cause for formal cause:
“Genes are responsible for nothing more than the production of different proteins. What we end up being as adults is dependent on when and how much of these proteins are produced during the time that we are developing (i.e. how the proteins are assembled). Sometimes this ‘expression’ is caused by other genes and sometimes by environment…”
But this is not true. It is the constitution of the turtle’s egg which determines whether incubation at temperature X will result in a female and whether incubation at temperature Y will result in a male.
The fact that the temperature is actually X has nothing to do with the fact that turtles’ eggs will hatch as female if incubated at temperature X.
Acartia’s error is an example of what Whitehead called the fallacy of misplaced concreteness.
Catino, what does the ability to create a cell from scratch have to do with natural selection? If anything, doing so gives more credence to an intelligent design than it does to natural selection. But I am sure that I don’t have to explain that to someone who can understand Newton, Maxwell and Einstein. You should also investigate the research that has been conducted on consciousness. The more that it is looked at, the less it appears to be supernatural in origin.
One of the arguments that have been used against Natural Selection, and one that David has used on occasion, is that it must be wrong because the consequences of it being generally accepted are bad. Hitler used the theory to justify genocide so the theory must be wrong. The theory was used to justify forced sterilization and other eugenics tools so the theory must be wrong. But this is no more valid an argument than arguing that Christianity is evil because some people used it to justify slavery.
Forgive this simpleton. I explained it before in my own simpleton way.
It takes a long time for, say, a basketball to go through a loop on its own. You can wait a few million years and it won’t happen. But if I take the ball and drop it through the loop then it happens. It may even happen over and over in slightly different ways. Purposeful action is more likely to achieve things than mere chance.
Therefore, if elements can blindly combine to form the simplest living cell by chance, why is it that a well trained biologist, having all the basic elements cannot make a living cell? It should be easy: we have the elements and we have a working model to copy from. No one is asking for some spectacular thing. The simplest cell would do for starts.
In the same fashion, to this day no one has been able to explain to me why I know I am myself and not someone else.
I have read a few things about consciousness, most of them deal with what part of a brain does what. Perhaps I should read more. It seems to me, though, that a book that explains beyond any doubt the emergence of consciousness would not escape my attention.
I have been at debates and discussions of this sort since I was a young man. Forty years of science haven’t seemed to add much. I accepted evolution as a student but soon I noticed the answers to my few questions were very similar to those answers one gets from a member of a cult. Read this, read that, you don’t understand, I already told you, etc. Out of respect for this venue I won’t tell you what I think of people that try to demean me to deflect valid honest clear questions.
Another question I have has to do with the abstract structure of things, everything from prime numbers to m-series are part of a mysterious jungle of stuff out there. I explore them with my mind and little else. It is obvious that they were there before my mind was able to explore them, for example in Newton’s time. How come my mind evolved in such a way that I can perceive abstractions that bear little or no importance to my survival in the primaeval jungles? I for one seem to be better prepared to handle abstractions than to take a stroll through the wilds of Borneo. I wonder why?
Now, again I do not have the kind of faith required to believe in natural selection and things like that. I like tangible things even if they are tangible abstractions that I can only grasp with my mind. I was at one point deeply troubled by certain mathematical structures found underlying the text of ancient books. Some of those things are so complex it may take a lifetime to even begin to comprehend them. Some do not seem to have any purpose whatsoever but to befuddle those who find them. Patterns are discernible everywhere, signatures left there by an intelligence, no doubt. But what kind of intelligence is that and why is it so mysteriously manifested? Don’t tell me that there is no intelligence behind them, for if you live alone and one day find a love note under your pillow that says “I’ve been watching you,” you shall call the police and never assume that that was simply a chemical formation that grew under your pillow.
In reality I have no use for Darwin or for natural selection. Impossibilities are not interesting and after a short time they get boring. I am completely satisfied that natural selection did not occur. In fact I was convinced of that about age 22, way before I had any religious inclination. What interests me now is to grasp as many of these mysterious patterns to see if by any chance I can discern the next level of their order.
Forgive my silly questions. I know none of the disciplines of Materialism can answer them. I just enjoy teasing.
Catino, no need to apologize. But I think that you might be surprised that the same mysteries that amaze you are the same ones that amaze me, a lowly liberal, progressive, atheist Darwinoid.
But, again, you fall back on the mystery of the formation of that first cell. Darwin and his theory do not attempt to address this, so why do you harp on it? His theory only attempts to address the spread of life after that first cell formed. As mentioned, I believe that the first cell formed through “non-Divine” processes, but that is pure speculation. But the fossil record is not speculation. DNA is not speculation. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is not speculation. New strains of flu every year is not speculation, animal husbandry isn’t speculation, HIV isn’t speculation. I could go on, but …
Aside to Catino (for Acartia to overhear), my very first dumb question, as an adolescent atheist reading Darwin’s masterpiece, was, “Why is this book entitled The Origin of Species when it does not explain how any species originated?” Like you I was told, “Just believe, & shut up.” But as I think I may have mentioned in an earlier “Essay,” I’d had the benefit of a truly impressive biologist as a basic science teacher at ages eleven & twelve; & from him had already acquired the habit of looking at the organism, down to the microscopic level; not speculating, but actually observing. I was vaguely aware that this Mr Henry had no time for, nor interest in Darwinism, & that it had cost him a career somewhere. Alas, by now I know of a few others like him: extremely capable men who simply could not pass the (quasi-) “religious test” to break into the world of government funding: i.e. could not repeat the standard Darwinist mantras to the Inquisitors, because they didn’t believe them.
A later teacher, credentialled in physics but profoundly learned in biology, explained the basic problem to me, of why Darwinism cannot be taken seriously: “The whole question of speciation is attacked, quite absurdly, from the wrong end.” The question is, how are the mutations generated that transform one species, not adapted to a given environment, into another, that is? And then fixed, in the new form, often for tens of millions of years? … That creatures not adapted will not survive is dead obvious; but the Darwinians endlessly belabour this self-evident point. “To call it an hypothesis is to show it far too much respect.”
The “discovery” of DNA was a real breakthrough. For the first time, we were able to see, even to begin reading, actual instructions for the design of an organism, & watch how they were replicated. We were able to see how incredibly complex, & likewise incredibly purposeful, was the “machinery” required for the production & operation of a single cell — any cell, even the simplest conceivable. It became perfectly obvious, from that point, that no living cell could possibly have “fallen together,” no matter how much time was allowed for this accident, let alone a few hundred million years (the time from the Earth’s formation to the first living cell). It was no longer a question of long odds, even odds beyond calculation. We were staring at an outright impossibility: such a thing cannot “just happen.”
Even to my own adolescent atheist mind, perhaps better trained in logic than most, thanks to the backward schools I’d attended, the “singularity” was apparent. I didn’t need “God” to tell me something made it happen; & that to pass that “something” off glibly was an outrageous evasion. God did not even come into it. The question was purely scientific: “How did that happen?” For if you can’t explain how the first cell was “created,” you can’t explain how any cell was created: end of pretence.
Empirical science cannot answer, “why.” It can only answer, “how.” But the Darwinians, who cannot even begin to answer the “how,” blunder then into the “why” questions of theology, which biology cannot possibly answer. They tell us it was all done by “natural selection,” acting blindly without cause; that Nothing did it. That “Nothing” is their God.
An incredibly complicated, & totally coordinated, effect without any cause. That is not a scientific assertion. It is, to use a surviving Mediaeval expression, “pissing into the wind.”
Now Acartia: “But the fossil record is not speculation. DNA is not speculation. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is not speculation. New strains of flu every year is not speculation, animal husbandry isn’t speculation, HIV isn’t speculation.”
None of these things have anything to do with Darwinism. They are the phenomena that we have to explain. The constant appropriation of the facts of evolution, to the (asinine) Darwinian explanation of them, persuades me that you truly do not get my point. So keep working on it.
Let me also suggest, on behalf of Catino, that facetious apologies need not be accepted.
Acartia, you are doing the “atheist dodge” when you exclude something as important and fundamental as how the first functioning cell came into being. In terms of probabilities of chance, it is impossible for it to come into being without the act of a Creator and Intelligent Designer. National Selection could not have had anything to do with it.
You should examine why you feel you have to assert something that could not possibly be true. If an archeologist came upon an area under the sod that had nothing to distinguish it from other areas he would move on. If that same archeologist came upon fence post holes arranged in straight lines and walls of stone running in straight lines he or she would rightly assume past human habitation of the area. You come upon the vast complexity and order to be found in living organisms and assume for reasons known only to yourself that nothing created it or designed it. Your atheistic position puts you in the position of someone who looks exclusively upon the voids of space and nowhere else.
Perhaps you should try looking around you at the living organisms you share the planet with.
David. Please accept this with respect, because I do respect you. I just think that you are wrong in this respect. As I am sure that I am wrong about many things, possibly even this. I really do get your point. I just don’t accept it.
You are incorrect in one respect. The simplest cells really are not that complicated. I can say this with confidence because I have spent the last thirty plus years studying them. Eukaryotic cells, however, are extremely complicated. And it took well over a billion years after the first life appeared for them to arise. On the grand scale of things, the biggest jump was from cyanobacteria to eukaryotes (e.g. paramecium) not from the first eukaryote to humans.
But I am interested in how you think that biologists think that Darwin, or natural selection have tried to answer “why?” I proudly admit to being a biologist. In fact, Acartia, is the genus of a common marine zooplankton, but I have never tried to explain “why” something is, just “how” it functions. Any biologist (or chemist, or physicist) who claims that they know “why” is egotistical and wrong. That is not our job. But I can say that about anyone who claims to know “why.”
You yourself have stated that natural selection works within a species (it would be hard to claim otherwise) but since species is a human concept, where do you draw the boundary?
And now, Viscount Dochart forces me to side with Acartia. God has no place in biology. He is Final Cause; biology, as every other empirical science, deals with proximate causation. And it specifically avoids any cause that cannot be empirically tested, or systematically observed.
That, in turn, is why using the phenomena of biology to deny the existence of God is ridiculous. The reasoning is entirely circular: we end with the same proposition with which we began.
By saying “God has no place in biology,” however, I am not suggesting that biology is evil, any more than, say, cricket is evil. God is there, always, but He is not playing in the game. The captain who assigns God to be his wicket keeper may well be pious, but it’s going to cost him an awful lot of runs.
God belongs in the heart of every biologist. But that because he belongs in the heart of every human being.
And now Mister Acartia. With the greatest respect, since I’m entirely prepared to believe you have spent thirty years in the cell mines, I cannot understand what you mean when you say:
“The simplest cells really are not that complicated.”
I must obey my own rule against providing links (or my own Comment will end up in a mountain of Spam) — but you may well be aware, from the journal Cell, 20 July 2012, of the work done by Markus Covert of Stanford, et alia, on the microbe Mycoplasma genitalium. It was selected for its very simplicity: only 525 genes, a wee tiny fraction of your average simple bacterium, & therefore many orders of magnitude below its complexity. The intention was to simulate this simplest of cells in computer software.
It took them nearly ten hours, on a cluster of 128 fairly advanced computers, to generate the data on only one part of this cell’s life-cycle process. Or as Dr Covert was quoted in the New York Times: “Right now, running a simulation for a single cell to divide only one time takes around 10 hours and generates half a gigabyte of data.”
And that simulation was acknowledged to be quite crude. I mean, like, we’re scratching the surface here, at the simplest end of the simplest free-living form we can get our cybernetic tweezers on. And you are telling me it’s “really not that complicated.”
David, I am aware of his work on modelling all behaviour, gene and protein interactions of this little critter. Modelling involves inputting all possible actions and reactions such that the model is predictive. That is why they are extremely complex and CPU intensive, not because what they are modelling is necessarily complex. Accurately modelling how a drop of water placed on the back of your hand will react is probably just as complicated.
But this isn’t to say that the simplest organism is simple. I was just stating that the gap between the simplest cell and a paramecium is greater than the gap between a paramecium and humans. So the argument that there was not enough time from the origin of multicellular organisms (e.g. sponges) and complex modern life forms to be accounted for by natural selection is looking at it in the wrong way. A single paramecium cell is far more complicated than any single cell in the human body is.
But the main issue was whether or not you had to demonstrate that a simple cell could arise through natural processes for natural selection to be a valid theory. And the fact is that they are mutually exclusive. One is not dependent on the other.
I believe that life originated through natural processes (not Divine intervention) but, at this time, this is little more than speculation. But whether the first life originated naturally, through Divine intervention, or through seeding by space monkeys has no impact on the validity of natural selection. So arguing against natural selection based on the fact that the first life form would have to be extremely complex simply isn’t relevant.
Otiosus: well put as usual. Thank you. I went back a few days to an old comment I left here and found it. I am lazy and I will abuse copy-and-paste one more time. Forgive me for quoting myself in the same forum!
“As for the comments on Darwinian Evolution let me add my two cents: the evidence points to the fact that minor changes within species actually happen. But Darwin dear did not write a book called How Minor Changes Occur Within Existing Species Over Time. He rather overplayed his modest findings by entitling his book, The Origin of Species. He purported to show that the same process that effects small changes within species is the same process that gave origin to special differentiation. For that (in my opinion) outrageous claim there is very little evidence.” End of quote.
In other words I would give Darwin the Captain Obvious Award and an honorable mention in the Left Hypothesis Unproved category. One day I hope you will write an essay on the effect that Darwin, Freud, and Marx had on society. If I have a complaint for the High Tribunal of Heaven it is to have been assigned to live downstream from those three stooges. I would gladly be a contemporary of Aquinas even if I had to give up aspirin, air conditioning, and toilet paper.
Your observation about the digital replication of the 525 gene organism reminded me of another of my impertinent questions. This question is actually a subset of one of the previous ones but here I go.
I would like to know how chance discovered the way to represent a three-dimensional organism on a two dimensional symbolic system. I have never seen a strain of DNA but from what I can gather, being a complete ignoramus that can only ask questions, the system to get from DNA to duck does not involve the analogical representation of a duck, like we usually do when we create a matrix for making rubber duckies, for example. Nay, the DNA sequence is definitely not analogical.
Here we have something to explain: the beneficial mutation has to occur in such a way that an abstract function, represented by reams of data, has to be altered in such a way that a perfect representation of the “modified” organ somehow happens at the abstract level first and then it translates into an advantageous change for the species.
A crude example: let us say that we have Windows 3.5 in our computer exposed uncountable times to a magnetic field that slightly alters randomly some of the code of the operating system and voilà! We have a new function such as zip.exe included there, icons and all. Allow me to note that this would involve a nearly meaningless alteration if we compare it to the volume of data edits needed to effect a change in the viscosity of the skin of the platypus at DNA level.
But that is more of the same. What troubles me is how the Darwinist defender of the faith reacts. There is a certain righteous indignation there that I compare to that of the Marxist who is challenged to produce a happy socialist country, or a Jehovah’s Witness who is shown the incongruities published in The Watchtower over the decades. My prediction is that when we leave the present Dark Ages, Darwinism will go the way of the dodo, phrenology, or the study of Stalin’s aphorisms. It is failing to evolve into something that can be defended with facts and logic, in this my most ignorant opinion.
The chief problem we face today is the exclusion of God from discussions because He is viewed as irrelevant to what is at hand. God can never be irrelevant. Such a notion is blasphemy. In the area of law, we see this happening all the time. The standard line is “We are discussing the law, not religion.” The law is an absurdity without God. If there is no God, then Justice and Truth are meaningless and the law is whatever anyone wishes to say it is. Similarly, God, the Intelligent Designer, can not be excluded from biology if we are to study that science in any thorough manner that makes sense. Nothing explains the processes of biology that result in complex organisms other than God. Without God one can say that a human being in his or her mother’s womb is just mammalian tissue. We can determine that some human beings should not have inalienable rights because they have not been as successful racial organisms as other racial organisms. We can design “better” human beings through genetic engineering because we, human beings, are the supreme designers.
If our society ever recovers from its current rapid trajectory towards hell, I would suggest that we all sit, not rise, when a judge walks into a courtroom. I would also suggest that anyone who discusses biology without asserting the primacy of God, be sentenced to a few hundred hours watching old Nazi extermination films.
My dear Acartia, once we have the drop size, the velocity, the angle, the material it impacts, the surface roughness, rigidity, & wetness, we’re laughing. I should think, one laptop, two minutes max.
Moreover, the “predictive model” for that wee Mycoplasma genitalium guy (which as we might guess from his name can be a nasty little critter), is vastly less reliable. We’re looking at coordinated action within & through something like two dozen molecular categories here. It would take either of us the rest of the night to expound what that implies.
And that discussion would only lead away from the issue. I would rather lead back to what I said three Comments ago. “Natural selection” does not tell us anything about how our little critters evolve. It only tells us that they get dead if they are maladapted. It is when we look in the DNA that we are opening the star gate.
Note, I didn’t say once we have one living cell, the rest is easy. That’s closer to what you say. I perfectly agree that the jump to eukaryotes is stunning. But so were one googolplex squared of other jumps along the way.
Meanwhile, I have just been sentenced by Lord Dochart to “a few hundred hours watching old Nazi extermination films” for my trouble in distinguishing biology from theology. I’m kind of looking forward to it, on the assumption that Cardinal Newman gets the same sentence, for his identical arguments in The Idea of a University — & I’d do almost anything for a chance to meet him.
Otiosus, I hope the storm is treating you well. Watching those films is bad but at least they are not Don Knotts films. I copy here a limerick found in the web for your entertainment. Here in Buenos Aires we have about 80 degrees F and it is not yet nine a.m. Count your blessings. Here’s the verse:
Evolution I see as a theory
Of accepting it I am quite leery
It has many gaps
So I think perhaps
The idea has grown rather weary
My name Sean is a gift I received at birth from my mother. The practice of using a nom de plume, meanwhile, seemed like it wouldn’t be bad fun. Thomas being my Confirmation name, and St. Thomas Aquinas being a top-notch thinker whose work I admire, I’ve opted for the Latin form of Thomas for my Idle moniker: Toma. Not that I make any claims to being a Thomist (i.e. a classically trained thinker who carries the field against all comers in a fair fight). Neither am I autodidactic. The middle term of Toman can serve as a suitable adjective.
Our chap Acartia makes a flawed case with his Hitler citation. Problems inherent to natural selection had already been described before Adolf appeared on the scene. Belief in a random, undirected, everything-is-just-colliding-atoms kind of universe deprived human beings of any claims for a sense of dignity or worth; moral considerations also become necessarily arbitrary. Now, Hitler et. al. were already devoid of a conscience. Scientism having become an intellectual poser’s fad, these warped people adopted natural selection as a “scientific” facade to make their Nietzschean pagan racialist ideas appear reasonable. Whether notion of natural selection necessarily produces moral monsters is a debatable question; meanwhile the predicted use it was put to by moral monsters to justify toxic ideas illustrates the point that it is conducive to moral depravity. The Christian will explain why evil exists; the consistent atheist, meanwhile, can merely ask, “Why shouldn’t it exist?”
David, if you see Newman, ask him how Gerontius is getting on.
If I might shove a very thin thought into a convenient crack in the mighty edifice of this commentary, I found myself pondering the seeming fact that consciousness is able to influence “matter” at the quantum scale. There are data. It seems to mean that consciousness can act like a thing. On the macro scale, there is the evidence of the placebo effect. This is not a little effect and it seems to show that consciousness (one could almost say faith) is able to influence bodily functions. If consciousness is merely an expression of chemical relationships, how is it able to modify those relationships? If it arose from complex chemical relationships, what is it doing at the quantum scale?
Cardinal Newman was I’m afraid, a great liberal bringing fellow liberals who had strayed from the fold, into the fold (or at least he thought). Christ said that we can do nothing without Him, and that applies to learning. Universities are actually lunatic asylums that serve the useful function of keeping most of the more dangerous crazies away from the general population to a limited degree.
Whenever one hears a Catholic prelate making statements that appeal to the broader mind, look for consequences down the road. Newman knew Anglicanism was dying very rapidly, but I don’t think he knew that Catholicism was in for a self-inflicted “modernization” that would almost destroy it seventy years after his death.
Newman was to me a kind of latter day Erasmus. The Truth does not develop, it simply is.
Acartia, if you really respected David, then you would do as I did 6 or 8 years ago when I first ran across a column of his about what utter claptrap Darwinism is. You would say to yourself, “Now, this very learned man, at least much more learned than I, has said something that completely violates what I have believed all these years. I should look into and consider that.”
It was not very long before I was able to conclude on the basis of my own inquiry, with certainty, that he is correct in the main in what he says about the neo-Darwinian faith.
And it is a religion. If it were not, then you would have an easier time absorbing what has been said here – not just by him but by others who obviously know a thing or two that you and I don’t – and not putting forth preposterous arguments based on “nature” doing this or that. I believe, but am not sure, that is another case of misplaced concreteness, at least as you use it.
If not, then it is a theological statement and an example of pantheism – unless you choose to follow your logic wherever it leads you, a la Aquinas, in which case I’m quite sure you will find that you are simply using another word when you mean to write or say God.
The problem here – I’m a psychologist and so can read minds – is that your world view is too much wrapped up in this matter for you to give it up. It is a fear of cataclysm but a case of only needing to fear fear itself.
As a psychologist, I also want to encourage you not to believe additional claptrap produced by psychologists who pretend that they have the foggiest idea what consciousness is. These are people who think that the mind is in the brain, which is something else that cannot be true, and some of them have spent years studying and writing self-refuting things like there is no such thing as free will.
Now, I am a Catholic these days, but when I gave up the mythology of Darwinian thinking, I was just a sloppy secularist. The transition to a real, justifiable religion has largely to do with the way the light came through the window one particular day in one particular place and little to do with the reason that ultimately can be found to justify the faith.
Newman, Benson, Knox were not Thomists. They were gifted fellows who relied a great deal on wit and talent to see them through. I’m aware of a problem or two in Newman, but “great liberal” would be an overstatement.
Well I’ll be a liberal. Viscount Dochart has beaten me. I must now concede that he is more reactionary than I am.
Have been leafing through the Summa contra Gentiles. Seems to me the whole thing was constructed on the liberal secular premiss, to the end of Book III. Which gets Thomas Aquinas into film week, too. And I think I have Augustine nailed: a notorious commie symp, in places.
Of course there’s a downside to all this. Spinoza & Leibniz I can sort-of stomach, when I’m in a merry mood, but not that Prussian squirt, Immanuel Kant. “Kant do this, Kant do that.” Here’s predicting he has a little accident, during the second intermission.
Otiosus, I don’t think you would qualify as a liberal. After all, you have a sense of humour. Liberals pretend they do, but it is just a lot of snobby chuckling over non-liberal heretics’ hopeless audacity when attempting to break out of the vile mode of thinking established as far back as the time of the nominalist infection.
The Catholic universities should never have allowed theology to be segregated from science, history, law etc. That was giving in to the enemy just to acquire donation money or maintain peace within the increasingly liberal faculties. Allowing atheism and agnosticism into a university is like allowing Bolsheviks into a parliament. When we look around us today, we see how thoroughly the secularists have won. Universities that belonged to Catholics now belong to the godless hordes. Our Lord is long gone and won’t be invited back. One former Catholic university that I know of built a new heating plant with a vaguely cross-shaped chimney on campus. There was an immediate outcry that the university was somehow daring to go back to its roots (which, of course, was not the case at all.)
In my view, being a reactionary is the way to go. The only thing we lack collectively is a leader with a strong military background and enough influence to assemble a substantial number of well trained soldiers. Hopefully such a leader will arise before the liberal/left totalitarians take charge of every aspect of our daily lives.
Thinking of Newman, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that one of my favorite poets, the Jesuit Gerard Manley Hopkins, was brought into the Catholic Church from Anglicanism by the Oxford Movement and Cardinal Newman.
Hopkins once said to fellow poet Robert Bridges “”Horrible to say, in a manner I am a communist.”
Newman wasn’t a communist, of course, but he was the sort of liberal who would appeal to Hopkins.
Despite my general distrust of anyone to the left of General Franco, I do not believe that all liberals and communists are necessarily totally bad. Some of these people are just deluded. Cardinal Newman was a case in point, as was Hopkins.